Wisconsin Forensics Daily

1. 34 Responses to “Brookfield Central LW Joins Circle of Champions: WDCA State TOC History”

2. Bill, I have a few answers for your blank spots and your question marks. The 92-93 top speaker was Josh Helling. Josh also received top speaker at TOC that year, and to this day is the best freakin’ debater I have ever seen. This guy would kick your tail all over the place with Family Planning, Islamic Fundamentalism (these impacts actually came true, and Malthus.) For the life of me, I can’t remember his partner’s name, but I believe his first name was David. Kevin Lennon would probably know.

   Next, the 1994-95 champs were Neenah CY (Andy Coan and Robbie Yablon). The top speaker was Andy Coan. These guys beat Srinu and I in sems on a 3-2 which was our only in-state lost round that year. I don’t remember who they beat in finals, because it really didn’t matter. The final round that year was semis. Bill McBride may know that answer, but I’m not certain.

   I’m going to do some brain exercises to see if I can stimulate my memory some more.

   Nick

   By Nick Stumbris on Dec 11, 2005

3. Awesome, thanks Nick! I corrected the article… if anyone has more info to share, please post!

   ~Bill

   By Bill Batterman on Dec 11, 2005

4. I GOT IT!!! Josh Helling’s partner was David Frost. Robbie and Andy beat Nicolet GM (Alyssa Glass and Evan Moffic).

   Lastly Renzlemann’s name is spelled RENZLEMANN!

   Word to your moms!

   By Nick Stumbris on Dec 11, 2005

5. You’re the man.

   By Bill Batterman on Dec 11, 2005

6. I’ve also gotten some updates since we started working on this last year.

   North has runner-up and semi-finalist Wisconsins from 1994. I’m not sure if those suggest what we know for 93-94 is wrong or if this is for 94-95. It’s so hard to tell because I don’t know when the tournament moved from january to december. Also, we thought we had the trophy from the WDCA state tournament along with us this weekend. Despite being in good shape before, now it is not. (This is why Noah can’t have nice things).

   Ben Bayer and Nathan Dintenfass both left messages on my own blog, where I have a copy of this history posted. Ben wrote, “I came across this post after googling my name. I was Nate Dintenfass’ partner, and he’s right, in ‘92-’93 we beat Brookfield Central. It was Josh and Dave from Brookfield. I think it was David Frank, but I could be wrong about that.” I’ll differ to Stumbris though. Frank and Frost sound an awful lot alike.

   I can’t find the email that Nate wrote.

   By Nick Bubb on Dec 11, 2005

7. Bubb, it is Frank. Damn brain exercises failed me.

   By Nick Stumbris on Dec 11, 2005

8. RE: Stumbris

   I just googled Jason and it’s actually Renzelmann.

   In any case, he debated in college at the University of Kentucky and then the University of Louisville and was hella good. He qualified for the NDT all four years and was in the top 16 in the Copeland rankings three of his four seasons. As a freshman at UK, he debated with Paul Skiermont (fourth speaker at the NDT) and they finished 14th in the First Round Rankings but did not clear at the tournament. As a sophomore, he debated with Wells (Trevor?) and finished 11th in the Copeland; Skiermont and Jason Patil finished first and Skiermont was the top speaker at the NDT. Renzelmann and Wells went 5-3 and cleared as the 15th seed before losing in the octafinals to Harvard AK (the eventual runners-up, Steven Andrews and Fred Karem). As a junior, he debated with Jason Patil but didn’t clear; Skiermont was again the top speaker (they finished second in the Copeland). As far as I can tell, he did not debate the next season (probably as a result of transferring to Lousville). As a senior in the 1996-1997 season he and Arnett finished fifth in the Copeland race and cleared as the seventh seed with a 6-2 record. They beat Wake Forest FG in the doubles and Iowa PR in the octas before losing to Georgia BD in the quarters (Paul Barness and Dan Davis, the runners-up).

   Yes, I’m a fanboy and it’s really cool that the NDT makes this kind of info available.

   RE: Bubb

   AFAIK, the last year that the State TOC was in January was Alison’s senior year (1998-1999). I know for sure that that tournament was in January and that the 1999-2000 tournament was in December, but it remains possible that there were flip-flops between the months earlier in the decade.

   I’ll change Frost to Frank momentarily.

   History is fun.

   ~Bill

   By Bill Batterman on Dec 11, 2005

9. All that NDT nonsense aside, I do believe Renzelmann’s greatest accomplishment to be the fact that he ran the top lab at the UW-Oshkosh debate camp. He was assisted in the lab by some guy I know pretty well. In fact, my back still hurts from carrying him. Yep, Srinu Reddy.

   By Nick Stumbris on Dec 11, 2005

10. I most definately have pictures of last years sToC somewhere, but they’re not digital just the prints would anyone be interested in including them on the website?

    By Annie on Dec 12, 2005

11. sure, but you’d have to scan them for me.

    By Nick Bubb on Dec 12, 2005

12. I have digital images of all placing teams from the 2004 STOC in South Milwaukee; I just need a little help identifying some of them. They’re GREAT quality; and that might save someone time from scanning.

    By Adam Jacobi on Dec 12, 2005

13. Addendum –

    1). Results since 2003 are now posted on the WDCA Web site under “Tournaments” >> “Complete Results Packets”

    2). Does anyone have results from the other varsity divisions (V4 and LD)? It would be nice to get a complete archive going.

    By Adam Jacobi on Dec 12, 2005

14. I have results of LD since its inception at the WDCA, and my memory goes pretty far back for the WFCA. Although, I’d bet that Mr. Batterman’s memory with regards to the old WFCA LD tournament is better.

    By Nick Bubb on Dec 12, 2005

15. Here’s a couple things:

    1. Heling has one ‘l’, not two. I could have sworn that the debate where they lost to Appleton East was the semis and not the finals, but I could be wrong. It is definitely David Frank, though.

    2. Top speaker in 95/96 was Stuart McKenna from Brookfield Central.

    3. I’m almost positive that Nick Moore’s partner in 2000/2001 was Matt Bross and not Ted Watter.

    By Kevin Lennon on Dec 12, 2005

16. Kevin-
    I’m 99% sure, Matt wasn’t debating in finals that year. As I recall, Matt quit before the Pius tournament that year. I don’t know if it was Ted Watter or not, but it wasn’t Matt.

    Great archive though. It’s nice to see this stuff remembered.

    By Andy Nolan on Dec 12, 2005

17. I changed a couple things:

    1) added Stuart McKenna as top speaker in 95/96.
    2) changed the spelling of Josh Heling’s name.
    3) changed the top speaker in 2003-2004 from David Watson to Kristin Degeneffe (based on the recently uploaded packet).

    I left Ted Watter for now until we get confirmation either way.

    As far as I can tell, we are missing the following info (assuming everything else is correct, which is probably a poor assumption):

    - 1991/1992 Top Speaker
    - 1996/1997 Top Speaker

    Pretty awesome.

    Thanks to everyone who’s helped out!

    ~Bill

    By Bill Batterman on Dec 12, 2005

18. Hi,

    I haven’t gotten to my deep files yet, but I believe Srikanth was top speaker in 96/97. I will do my best to try to find the top speaker for 91/92.

    By Traas on Dec 13, 2005

19. Looking at all of these names is bringing back crazy memories. I feel really old right now. I remember Paul Skiermont delivering lectures at camp. And the at the UW-Oshkosh camp Nick mentioned, Renzelmann was assisted by Trevor Wells, who has to be one of the funniest people I’ve ever met. At that point in time I was LD focused, and Clif brought in the excellent Jason Baldwin to run the top LD lab. That was pretty incredible camp when you look back at the names involved.

    Thanks for the flashbacks:)

    By Kristi Plamann on Dec 14, 2005

20. I think it would be great to have last year’s State Photos up. I know a lot of people were wondering what happened to them.

    By WIDebateSupporter on Dec 14, 2005

21. WIDebateSupporter: They’ll be up by the end of the week.

    By Adam Jacobi on Dec 14, 2005

22. From the 92-93 season- Josh Helling’s partner was David Frank.

    Prior to that Josh was with Amy…

    And prior to that Amy & Carrie… were champions

    By Seanne Hanke on Feb 28, 2006

23. Thanks to a backchannel email, I was able to correct the 1994-1995 Top Speaker.  The correct recipient of that honor was Evan Moffic of Nicolet… it's now corrected in the above list.

    ~Bill 

    By Bill Batterman on Apr 24, 2006

24. Runners up in 95-96 were Evan Moffic and Steve Lederman from Nicolet. No comment on '96-'97.

    By Josh Friess on Jul 21, 2006

25. Aw, man, it didn't display my emoticon at the end of the last post!  There was supposed to be a wink. :-)

    By Josh Friess on Jul 21, 2006

26. Find Article has an article from the MJS listing Alyssa Glass as top speaker in 94-95 http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4207/is_19950217/ai_n10185598  I am about 70% sure Renzelmann was the top speaker in 91-92. I was there. Clif Morton probably knows and if anyone could track down Jeff Holt (Sheb Christian?), he probably knows. Gerarrd Grigsby was Maxon/Renzelmann's coach so he probably knows. I think he has been coaching for a school in San Francisco the last few years. 

    By Cory Puuri on Sep 8, 2006

27. One of these days when I'm back in town, I need to have a sit down with Mr. Holt.  

    If others are interested in such a conversation, I'll see if he'd be interested in helping out with the North Tournament.  Then I might get some cool answers.

    By Nick Bubb on Sep 12, 2006

28. Nick, Cory and all: I have a little information that might help, assuming that this information is still correct.  Jeff Holt has been working for an insurance company in Sheboygan.  His phone number is 920-458-0924.  Gerard Grigsby is indeed in San Francisco.  I've got his phone number (yes, a phone number) for Gerard somewhere.  His email address is:  gerardgrigsby@hotmail.com

    By David Henning on Sep 13, 2006

29. Hmmmm stumbled in….

    re: the question about alyssa glass. If i’m not mistaken she was WHSFA top speaker, not WDCA top speaker. I could be wrong though, its happened before.

    Re: josh’s no comment about who the runner up was in 1996-1997…

    man, its been ten years since that round. are we that old? you definately are, mr. almost thirty.I slept through most of it but samson said you guys were alright.

    By Peter Klein on Oct 18, 2006

30. The 92-93 Season info is incorrect. I was the debate coach at Sheboygan North from 1990-1993. My A team from the year before Paul Maxon & Jason Renzelmann-who I referred to as the L.O.D. or Legion of Doom went undefeated at both State & NFLs and did not drop a ballot at either tournament. We were down quite a bit the next year after they graduated, but my A team of Heather Shannon (a sophomore) and Kurt Keough(a junior) made it to the TOC in Kentucky that year and managed to beat one of the fellows-Mary Beth Maloney from The Head Royce School.I split up our top two teams to let them debate with their 1st partner choice at State, and my team of Matt Zemanek and Kurt Keough debated Appleton in the finals, NOT Brookfield Central. Although Josh and David were vastly superior to that particular team,they were nonetheless knocked out in the Quarterfinals-thus they made the finals at TOC, but only the 1/4s at WDCA State.And they got beaten fair and square at State-I was there. The next year, the 93-94 season I coached John Brogan & Srinu Reddy at Appleton East along with Gary Arndt-who put his ego aside in a way I have never seen another head coach do before or since to allow me to “work my magic” with the Appleton team. I was also the victim of some extremely vicious,and cruel lies which seemed to establish this pattern of deception by some in the state who were extremely unhappy with the fact that a black debate coach like myself enjoyed such tremendous success.I only ended up staying at Appleton East for the first semester before I was betrayed by the new director of Forensics-despite protests from the other coaches,debaters,parents etc. I was let go midway through the first semester. I ended up moving back to California where I went on to coach at Head Royce and The Harker School and continued to enjoy tremendous success.My # is 415-286-2749.

    By Gerard Grigsby on Dec 11, 2007

31. Gerard,

    I’m the current director of debate at Sheboygan North; our historical records could use some touching up, specifically during Jason and Paul’s run. Would you please back-channel me at vossj5919@uwc.edu?

    Best,
    Jonathan Voss

    By Jon Voss on Dec 11, 2007

32. Hey Jon-just sent you a pretty extensive email regarding the very early days including how Jason and Paul and I came to meet-up. It should take you right up to the brink of our first tournament together at East Grand Rapida-in Michigan. Thanka.

    By Gerard Grigsby on Dec 12, 2007

33. Voss if you don’t forward me and Bill that information, we will kill you.

    By Nick Bubb on Dec 12, 2007

34. G-MAN, I would love to read that email. Can you, or anyone else who got it, please forward me a copy at jrenzelmann@yahoo.com?

    By Jason Renzelmann on Jan 10, 2008

35. I noticed that the 2000-2001 runner-up team is listed as Brookfield Central Nick Moore and Ted Watter. That team was actually Nick Moore and Daniel Schwei. If you look at the break round pairings for that year, you’ll see it accurately reflected as Moore-Schwei. And, as one of the members of the team, I certainly remember being there :)

    Thanks

    By daniel schwei on Oct 23, 2008

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